Dining across the divide: ‘Saying everyone who wants to reduce illegal migration is racist doesn’t get us very far’

3 hours ago 2

Louise, 52, Bristol

Occupation Audio producer

Voting record Lifelong Labour voter until the last election, in which she voted Green

Amuse bouche Lived with her family in Cambodia for years, returning to the UK in 2021, by chance just before Covid rampaged through Cambodia, which had no lockdown measures

Darryl, 61, Hastings

Occupation Retired local government manager

Voting record Labour in every general election since 1983; sometimes a protest vote for another party in local elections, but only when he’s sure Labour will win

Amuse bouche Darryl was voted the Weakest Link in the second round, back in the second series. The question: what do you call the official in rugby, an umpire or a referee? Obviously it’s a referee, but he was so nervous and Anne Robinson hardly puts you at ease

For starters

Darryl Louise was bubbly, lively, really nice. I thought we were going to have a cracking evening, and we did.

Louise I loved him! He has such a kind face; he was a little bit shy and that was endearing.

Darryl One of the best restaurants I’ve been to in a long time. It was wonderful. Indian and British, not too spicy. She’s a vegetarian but she didn’t mind me eating meat.

Louise I had a gruyere soufflé and we shared some mushroom croquettes.

A woman and man facing each other across a restaurant table

The big beef

Darryl I came to the UK from the great Kenyan exodus when I was four. I was probably on one of the same planes as Suella Braverman’s father. We had British passports, we had every right to be here. I’m a bit of a fan of Shabana Mahmood, the home secretary. It’s just not fair for people to be able to get on to a boat and come over here, and then get in the queue to come into this country. Just saying that everyone who wants to reduce illegal migration is racist doesn’t get us very far.

Louise He had a very British attitude – not that he doesn’t want immigrants here, but traditional in the sense that it should be fair play. It’s just not British to jump the queue. I think if you’re desperate enough to get on a boat and cross the Channel in November, you should be allowed in, I don’t care who you are. I think there need to be a lot more safe routes for people to apply for asylum status. I think his mentality is that it should be strict, and it’s an issue. If there aren’t many safe routes, then that’s not his problem.

Darryl Unless we can reduce illegal migration, I don’t think Labour stand a chance in three years. Zack Polanski said he wants to replace the Labour party. How can you work with someone like that? It’s a fit of spite. It’s like the Corbynistas, and this sense that they want to be holier than thou.

Louise Look, in a utopia, I want open borders. But within the confines of the society we live in, then no, I don’t believe in open borders.

Sharing plate

Darryl One thing we did agree on is wouldn’t it be great to have a progressive alliance. Reform and the Tories, if they ever got together, they would sweep the next election. In our heart of hearts, we both know that. It would be great if there were a Labour/Green coalition.

Louise I do believe that the left should coagulate in order to keep out the far right, but where I am, my heart is far more with the Greens than with Labour. I’m just lucky that I’m in a constituency where I could safely vote that way.

For afters

Darryl We talked about the Epstein files and she was saying we should remember the victims in all of this: women who are traumatised by male behaviour. My emphasis is that we need to change that behaviour. At one stage, I asked her, “Do you think any work should be done on the perpetrators of domestic violence?” She didn’t really answer that. I think we’ve lost a generation to toxic masculinity, and we have to do something about not losing another.

Louise I think I softened Darryl on the gender issue – I think stories about young men use up the oxygen in the room, toxic masculinity is discussed a lot, it gets airtime, it gets debates on TV. Boys being attracted to Reform is scary, and girls worried about their reproductive rights is not scary. So I understand it, but I don’t agree with it.