3 hours ago
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Where Politics Meets History LBC
Down the Caff Down the Caff
Archive on 4: No Blacks No Irish Radio 4/BBC Sounds
I try, honest, but all these history podcasts just don’t do it for me. Also, while I’m in the confessional podcast booth, nor do many political ones either. The audio charts are full of both, but – sorry, clever bro-chatters! – they leave me cold.
So, as you might imagine, I approached Where Politics Meets History, the new show from LBC’s Iain Dale and historian Tessa Dunlop, with some trepidation. Though only a bit: I have a soft spot for Dale, though I disagree with him about many things. He’s a warm broadcaster, whose political stance is researched, rather than kneejerk. He’s happy to go against the grain and to say when he’s wrong (though, like many, he tends to crow when he’s right). Dunlop is less established as an audio host, though you might recognise her from Coast on the telly.
Anyway, Tuesday’s first show was a bit of a mess. Dunlop was initially quite hesitant (there was an awkward moment of silence when Dale asked her to explain who he was), and later, a little too dominant. A stronger structure might have helped – though as I listened to Dale describing his recent holiday in Germany, referring to his hotel and Kaiser Frederick, husband of Queen Victoria’s eldest daughter, I thought: perhaps sticking to the point isn’t the aim of the show? The pace and topics weather-vaned between Dunlop’s intense info-dumping and silly whimsy from Dale (another story: when a young woman in a lift was rude about Americans, he spoke in an American accent, just to embarrass her).
To her credit, Dunlop had an interesting overarching point: there were, she said, several parallels between the current standoff/negotiation between Zelenskyy, Trump and Putin and the one between Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin in 1943. But she needed to make her point more quickly, and perhaps without all the lengthy historical quotes, which she got Dale to read out in a silly voice. As an experienced podcaster, Dale was more relaxed, and as phenomenally well-informed as ever. If the dynamic between the two can be smoothed out (they clearly like each other, so I’m sure it can), and the structure of the show made clearer, then this will develop into a fascinating listen for those of you who can cope with a concept we might call Active News Terror Plus The Important Past.
When it comes to history, it’s social history that I like. Not the moves of the bullyboys in charge, but the small yet consequential stuff that unpowerful people do with their lives. Which brings me to Down the Caff, a podcast from E Pellicci’s cafe in east London, a Bethnal Green institution. With an intro voiced by Ray Winstone (“surviving two world wars and one cereal cafe… real cockneys, a word often used but not often understood”), every episode bangs straight into, well, mayhem.
What a completely bananas show this is. There are too many voices, and they’re not introduced. There are too many in-jokes that aren’t explained (someone’s got an Irish wife, which is repeatedly mentioned). The celebrity guest often goes off mic, or doesn’t seem to know why they’re there. Everyone shouts all over each other. It’s nuts.
Having said all that, the vibe is sensational: friendly, upbeat, packed with life, really fun. And as you listen on, everything gradually reveals itself. Our two hosts are, it turns out, brother and sister Nevio and Anna (Nevio’s the one with the Irish wife). They’re the third-generation owners of the cafe – full-on characters who bring out a side to their guests I’m not sure anyone else could even locate. Last week’s guest, Tommy Mallet, designer and ex-Towie person, is someone I’d never heard of, but their interview with him was so off-the-wall I couldn’t stop listening. We heard about him doing a seance, about how he can’t stand posh restaurants, and how his wife lived off Deliveroo and “bowls of Crunchy Nut”. I loved him. Episodes feature Annie MacManus, Róisín Murphy, Kevin Rowland, Tom Grennan. Tuck in!
While we’re on social history, let’s turn to Archive on 4, always packed with excellent examples. No Blacks No Irish, hosted by Peter Curran, who’s white and from Belfast, and Tony Phillips, who has Caribbean heritage, was a fascinating and shocking delve into the UK’s upsettingly recent history of racism. Some of the recorded archive was eye-wateringly prejudiced – the views of the public, from landlords to sex workers, were so awful I can’t even write them down – but there was delight in there too.
Don Warrington, who played Philip in Rising Damp, gave a particularly lovely interview about what the show had achieved. “It turned a racial stereotype on its head,” he said. “Philip became the ideal of a white person… Rigsby was the one who suffered from all kinds of incontinences, he could not in any way contain himself… Philip was utterly contained… Philip was a toff, he was a prince, and that has great currency in this country.”
And coming up on 22 March is Section 28: Right to be Gay, another fantastic listen. Presented by actor turned activist-MP Michael Cashman, the programme carefully details the atmosphere in the UK in 1988, when the appalling section 28 of the Local Government Act – which banned the “promotion of homosexuality” in schools – was passed. Cashman gets emotional as he recalls the protests, his voice choking as he recalls the unity, the chanting. I remember those protests myself, how angry and vital, as well as funny, they were. But it all happened. Exactly the history I’m here for.
