Dining across the divide: ‘He mentioned this chap called Jordan Peterson. I thought he was a cricketer!’

2 hours ago 3

Nyree, 41, Peterborough

Occupation Director of a communications business

Voting record Green or Labour. Describes herself as “left-leaning”

Amuse bouche Nyree used to know the word for monkey in 70 languages. “I no longer know them all off by heart, but in Armenian it’s kapik.” (Nyree’s dad is from Armenia)

Karl, 51, Peterborough

Occupation Works in e-commerce

Voting record Reform in the last election. Previously Conservative and once (1997) Labour. Describes himself as “a political butterfly”

Amuse bouche Karl used to do PR for the Campaign for Real Ale and once pulled a pint for the MP Steve Barclay in the Strangers’ Bar in parliament

For starters

Nyree The restaurant was lovely – friendly staff, nice atmosphere. Within the first few seconds a waiter spilled a beer; thankfully on Karl, not me. You can always judge someone by how they are with people looking after you at the table, and Karl was really nice about it. And I’d expected a monster!

Karl Knowing that I’d voted Reform, Nyree might have expected some sort of reactionary, middle-aged guy. I look quite young for my age, so she was probably a little taken aback. We had delicious spicy calamari and steamed dumplings called momos to start. Then we shared a butter chicken and a goat curry.

Nyree and Karl choosing from the menu at a restaurant table

The big beef

Nyree I couldn’t bring myself to say the word “Reform” out loud – I might have vomited. Yeah, I do just see them as a bunch of massive racists. But Karl’s views on immigration were more varied than I was expecting. One thing he did say got me thinking: that the people protesting outside hotels were unhappy and had the right to be heard.

Karl Immigrants have brought a lot of things we couldn’t do without, and the vast majority work hard, pay their taxes, etc. The burning issue at the moment is the number of people arriving by small boats, 75% of whom are young adult males. Why did I vote Reform? Sometimes it’s good to have the pendulum swing. I don’t trust Keir Starmer: his positions change too much, like on the debate around what a woman is. Plus, Reform said they’d raise the personal allowance before income tax to £20,000, which would benefit people on low incomes. Ultimately, it’s about trying to address some of the issues for a great swathe of the working class in the UK.

Nyree Nigel Farage is such a pretend sort of a person. He’s like a toddler who hasn’t had enough attention, with no moral compass. It’s just about whatever will gain him personal advantage, and that’s a dangerous person to put in power.

Karl I’m not a Farage fanboy or anything. But I do think he says more about what he actually believes in than some of the others. Perhaps there is a little bit of charisma about Nigel.

Nyree and Karl eating and chatting across a restaurant table

Sharing plate

Nyree We talked about where Karl was getting his information – I was trying to guide him in a different direction. I’ve suggested he listens to Jane Garvey and Fi Glover’s podcast. He mentioned this chap called Jordan Peterson. I thought he was a cricketer!

Karl My advice to Nyree is to read widely from a variety of sources. I find some of the commentary in the Guardian a little bit hyperbolic. But I’ll still read it, and compare and contrast it with what’s being said elsewhere.

For afters

Karl I did suggest certain things around DEI [diversity, equity and inclusion] need to be looked at. Is it really necessary? I think how employees are expected to behave around each other can be covered by company policies.

Nyree DEI’s important because without it the norm remains the straight, white, well-off man. If, for example, a police officer is unable to spot bruising on differently coloured skin, that’s a massive problem for domestic violence, for child abuse. That’s what diversity, equity and inclusion is: seeing things from a different point of view.

Nyree and Karl chatting across a restaurant table

Takeaways

Nyree Time flew by: the first time I looked at my phone it was 10pm. We should all get out of the bubble, shouldn’t we? And he was really pleasant, not a monster at all.

Karl An overwhelmingly positive experience. It’s nice to be challenged on your own views. I was fortunate to dine with someone who was very open-minded, not judgmental.