Dining across the divide: ‘There’s nothing more irritating than being told you’re an idiot by a teenager’

6 hours ago 7

Alex, 28, London

Occupation Assistant producer for documentaries

Voting record Only ever voted Labour

Amuse bouche He was born on the day Tony Blair was elected prime minister. One of his parents’ friends, who campaigned for Labour, asked them which of the day’s events they were happier about (it was having Alex – though they were pleased about Blair)

Mike, 74, London

Occupation Retired documentary producer

Voting record For many years he has voted Lib Dem “with intense regrets, once they messed with student fees”, but reasons they are “better than the Tories”

Amuse bouche In conversation, he has a very bad habit of saying, “I once made a film about that …”

For starters

Alex I was pretty nervous, and I had a hellish journey fighting my way through Black Friday weekend crowds. But we got on straight away, and professionally we had a lot of crossover.

Mike I found him remarkably thoughtful, grounded and likable.

Alex We shared tortilla chips with guacamole to start, then I had soft-shell crab tacos with five different types of salsas. It was really delicious.

Mike I had beef brisket tacos. It was really good food and the staff were completely charming.

Alex and Mike chatting across a restaurant table

The big beef

Alex We have a housing crisis in this country, and, while I don’t believe there’s anything morally wrong with someone owning a second home or aspiring to doing so, I think taxes on second homes can be a useful tool as a way to alleviate housing pressures in certain communities.

Mike In Tenby in south Wales, the council imposes a 150% second home tax. But is it true that deterring people from buying homes in these areas is actually going to free up those homes for local people? I think second homeowners who are not the richest may be squeezed out, but will probably be replaced not by locals but by better-off people who don’t mind paying those taxes.

Alex I agree that taxing second homes, though it does raise revenue, doesn’t solve the root problem. I think the only way to truly solve a housing crisis is to build – if you’re not building houses, that’s still going to cause property prices to rise.

Mike I don’t know what you do about the issue, but I worry about using specific taxes to achieve particular aims, as there is no guarantee it will have the desired outcome.

Sharing plate

Alex People have different understandings of what woke means. My friends and I don’t take the term too seriously. We’d use it in a joking way; if someone says something that’s right and aligns with progressive liberal values, we might still teasingly call them woke. I understand why some see woke as bad; you get a lot of people virtue signalling on certain issues without understanding the full history and context.

Mike My feeling is that often I respond positively to what people identified with woke culture are saying, because it’s difficult to argue with. Do you want more polluted air or less polluted air? I’m not saying it isn’t annoying. There’s nothing more irritating than being told you’re an idiot by a teenager – but it doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

For afters

Mike We both felt the BBC was a vital part of British culture. But they try to find a balancing point of view even when there is none – nearly 100% of experts say you can’t deny climate change is happening. My view would be you just say: “This is what everybody thinks bar one or two people.” And just get on with telling the story.

Alex I agreed with his point about the problem with impartiality. But because we live in a society where people are consuming media in so many different forms, climate denialists are going to seek out that point of view elsewhere and will always feel the BBC is biased; I think that means it’s more important than ever to aim for impartiality.

Takeaways

Alex I had a lovely time, and it makes me realise how important it is to talk with people, to engage and to actually be mindful of these issues.

Mike I think he’s a good example of where there might be hope for broadcasting. He didn’t seem to be at all interested in manipulating things for journalistic profit. I’m very glad to have met him.